(no subject)
5 September 2018 17:09![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
haptalaon"Faith and desire is, however, no guarantee of ordination. Would-be candidates have first to convince a parish priest that they have the makings of a priest, then pass the scrutiny of a director of ordinands during months of interviews, before enduring a two-day selection conference where a committee endeavours to distinguish between pious enthusiasm and genuine vocation. Undischarged bankrupts are not considered, nor are hopefuls under 18 or over 57, in order to ensure adequate maturity and to justify the enormous training costs with the prospect of a reasonably long ministry.
Many who wish for ordination are deemed unsuitable whether in character, faith or ability; many more are advised to go away and prove themselves before being recommended for holy orders. Those that pass muster embark on a theological degree or diploma course – a non-residential course for married candidates over the age of the 35, residential study in one of the diminishing number of seminaries for those under 30, or the option of either for older single ordinands.
Pike was told to spend six months working in a parish before he could be recommended for training. “I had never done any pastoral work before,” he says. “I went to a deprived parish in Leicester on an estate surrounded by dual carriageways. Quite a few professionals visited it as social workers, speech therapists etc, but the clergy and pastoral assistants were the only professionals who lived there, and I realised that one of the privileges of being a priest is that you are accepted as part of the community – whatever kind of community it is – and there is an instinctively generous welcome into people’s lives.”
After three years studying theology at Mirfield College in Yorkshire, he was ordained at 26 and sent to be curate on an estate in the town of Hartlepool. While at Mirfield Pike had taken a BA in theology at Leeds University, but he says it was the discipline of communal life at the college that got him through the first daunting years of ministry, and he is disturbed by the increasing reliance on non-residential training and threats to traditional colleges."
Something like this. Something I can believe in. I would like a process like this.
The things that stand out to me are:
I found some stuff on a Christian vocation, and it's talking about what we would call "discernment", but I can't see much there which would put a meaningful check on personal ego, or on intra-community bollocks, and I especially like when it says: "if the Vocations Director suggests we hold back for a bit, or if the Bishop decides not to accept us for priesthood at this point, this is not a rejection or a negative thing – it is the way that God is leading us to something else..."also you didn't put out when asked"
Many who wish for ordination are deemed unsuitable whether in character, faith or ability; many more are advised to go away and prove themselves before being recommended for holy orders. Those that pass muster embark on a theological degree or diploma course – a non-residential course for married candidates over the age of the 35, residential study in one of the diminishing number of seminaries for those under 30, or the option of either for older single ordinands.
Pike was told to spend six months working in a parish before he could be recommended for training. “I had never done any pastoral work before,” he says. “I went to a deprived parish in Leicester on an estate surrounded by dual carriageways. Quite a few professionals visited it as social workers, speech therapists etc, but the clergy and pastoral assistants were the only professionals who lived there, and I realised that one of the privileges of being a priest is that you are accepted as part of the community – whatever kind of community it is – and there is an instinctively generous welcome into people’s lives.”
After three years studying theology at Mirfield College in Yorkshire, he was ordained at 26 and sent to be curate on an estate in the town of Hartlepool. While at Mirfield Pike had taken a BA in theology at Leeds University, but he says it was the discipline of communal life at the college that got him through the first daunting years of ministry, and he is disturbed by the increasing reliance on non-residential training and threats to traditional colleges."
Something like this. Something I can believe in. I would like a process like this.
The things that stand out to me are:
- An external wise force saying "yes, I agree that you are right for this"
- A training program of some sort
- Gaps in communities which one is welcomed into to fill
I found some stuff on a Christian vocation, and it's talking about what we would call "discernment", but I can't see much there which would put a meaningful check on personal ego, or on intra-community bollocks, and I especially like when it says: "if the Vocations Director suggests we hold back for a bit, or if the Bishop decides not to accept us for priesthood at this point, this is not a rejection or a negative thing – it is the way that God is leading us to something else..."
no subject
Date: 5 September 2018 16:57 (UTC)He had me come up with my own requirements (there are some things that were expectations, but a) I was the first person to go through 3rd solely in the tradition and b) everyone felt pretty strongly that part of the point of taking on the responsibilities of being a 3rd in the tradition is being able to figure out a list that works for yourself (with consultation.)
Because it involves responsibility for the tradition, one of the things I felt was important was being aware of how we fit into the larger context: doing stuff that connected me with a larger community.
That provides both something of a check and balance, and gets someone who's paying attention feedback about whether they're coming across weird. (Not even abusive stuff, but just 'this is a bit off' or 'did you mean that like that?')
Other parts have included my commitment to keeping at least some form of public bio that explains what I've done, where I've done it, etc. (much like my professional website has a bio and context for my professional life.)
I don't break down every ritual and class, but I can say "Here's stuff I do/have done".
One complication that comes up in the Pagan community is that getting references for this is tricky. A lot of people are still in the closet, so handing out their contact information for a casual request is really not good. Or people have died/fallen out of contact/are not longer available.
(My 3rd degree also involved multiple people outside our trad being part of the process. That was 11 years ago. Of the 7, I'm still reasonably in contact with 2, and could track down a third with some effort. But they're also people who are likely to be entirely unknown to people asking about me here in Massachusetts, so.)
On the other hand, that's why I did stuff with Pagan Pride, and have connections there that are "I helped do this thing that worked pretty well."
It's not perfect, but it's a result of building the community as a whole based on personal interactions and individual group determinations, rather than any kind of larger standard.
(For example, I've come across intiatory groups that don't discuss circle casting until sometime around 2nd degree, which I find totally bizarre, or people whose 3rd degree formal study work is equivalent to what we require for 1st degree with maybe another few classes going deeper on some topics. And I know that we do things that make other people make those faces at me... The only way through is to do a comparison, decide on a personal level what that means, and go from there.)