Greed

I have a pretty intense relationship with a local forest; and what I found out later was that it was also a working space regularly visited by certain 50s witches of repute whom you will have heard of. Which is kinda cool!

But it also means other witch groups go there all the bloody time, and I confess that brings up some very uncharitable feelings, especially towards those groups ive attended and found to be "eh" in the past. This is """""my"""""" forest, I found it """""first""""" and I don't like other people mucking around with its juju.

I liked this band BEFORE it was cool! You're not a real Star Trek fan! Etc etc etc.

(no subject)

Hmmm so I think what I'm doing is relating it to my experience of unicorning. A unicorn is a bisexual babe who's up for hooking up with heterosexual couples, and they're called unicorns because everybody wants one and no one knows how to behave to get one.

Check out Unicorns R Us to find out more what that's like...

Anyway, I guess I'm assessing these coven entry procedures the same way Unicorns R Us assesses "unicorn hunting" couples. And they're throwing up the kind of red flags which mean I would not give an advert a second look:

"We are a committed couple looking for a third. Our third must be this height and not fat and cisgender and into being the sub in this very specific fantasy we have as a couple. You can only meet one of the pair for your probation process; at the end of which we expect you to commit to joining our relationship. We want to train you so you are our perfect submissive and ensure you have all the skills needed to serve us - we are experienced dominants and will show you everything you need to know. For the right person, we are interested in a long term relationship where you could move in and go on holiday with us, but please understand we are in a committed relationship and our marriage always comes first.

Why does nobody ever reply to our advert???"

Unicorns R Us does a really good job of breaking down why that's a bad dynamic and no one ought to go for it, in a step by step way. It boils down to -the couple are looking for a specialist sex worker/sex toy, rather than a person, and they're basing the process on a predetermined idea of a perfect thing they what to slot into their lives rather than being open to building something with an individual; and the balance of power is clearly with the couple to ditch the third at any time without warning, while requiring her to jump a considerable set of hurdles for them.

I wonder to what extent my "coven hunting as online dating" analogy is accurate and fair? For me, it's the nearest similar experience I have to base it on. But my instinct is that the bits that count, are the same. And it works well not because you've found a submissive who shares 100% of your kinks and values and life goals, but because you've found a cool person you like to chill with.

I look at an advert like this and see no room for my fantasies or needs, no room to contribute or participate equally, no "rights" or sense of being valued as an individual. What I'm looking for is - are these people looking for an individual, or a prop? Are they open to trying new things? How do they treat each other as a couple? Is their relationship strong? If I don't fit neatly into the slot, are they going to dump me on the spot or do we have a genuine relationship where things are worked through? The problem with "we are looking for a redhead of X height with Y fetishes and Z normative body features" isn't just that one doesn't meet the requirements, but that they are looking for a fantasy - fixed, closed off - rather than a relationship - organic, open, experimental, responsive.

It's delicate and subtle. In relationships and coven both, you do need to set some agreed grounds - for example, there's no point in a duality coven welcoming someone who immediately insists they only do goddess work. But what I'm looking for in couples is flexibility. I'm looking for people I can say "I've never tried X, but can we do Y?" to, and get warmth and enthusiasm back, rather than "no. We only do X. You are expected to only do X or we will expel you". Is this space open to experimentation and nuance, or are they looking for a ritual prop? Is the bloke looking for a sex worker while being too cheap to hire one, or are they actually looking for a girlfriend? Is the coven looking for another working partner, or just a person to have "I am a mentor" power fantasies over? Am I in an environment where, commensurate to the work and time I have put in, I will be valued - or am I some sort of disposable prop they can replace when broken? And so on.

I don't think it's a good idea for me to overlook or ignore my instincts on a thing like this; but at the same time, it's possible things are different in ways I don't quite understand.

j

There's a "Secondary Partner's Bill of Rights" lurking on the Web attempting to combat some of these issues, and I think that's the kind of thing that would be reassuring in a coven context.

Every one of these things I've poked my nose into so far has sent me a long application form and agreement to sign after a first enquiry, and I think my preference would be thst each time I sign one, my opposite number also signs one.

Ie if I have accepted the rights and responsibilities thst come with initial group training, I also have a document with the commitment the group is making to me.

That commitment could be any thing:

"When you complete the initial probation, we will:
* accept you into the coven automatically
* give you a certificate and a login to our member network to find an affiliated coven
* grade your work and consider entry
* send yoy information about the next stage of the application process"

Etc etc etc. I guess it's trying to put an uncertain interpersonal process on more of an equal and certain footing, and making explicit the ways in which a seeker is auditioning for a group as much as the other way around. One thing that kept me sane when doing unicorning was trying to see myself and my time as valuable, as important, and a process in which I could afford to be patient and picky.

The groupwork thing is inherently one where the balance of power to accept or reject is with the group, never something which I'll feel very comfortable with due to the aforementioned ego. But I guess something showing the group was self aware about this, and also had a clear procedure rather than being at the whims of some rando on a power kick. Idk.