Thailand's Cave Mythology

Here's a brilliant article about Thai religion/mythology and cave spirits from the Atlantic:

Thailand's Caves are Dangerously Alluring

We've been very anxiously watching the rescue of the football team - we're spending a lot of time in the hotel bar, which has a news channel unfortunately, and I am *terrified* of drowning so I have some Very Strong Feelings About Diving In Caves.

Not wishing to insert my spiritual feelings where they're inappropriate, and yet the year's been so bad and my month's been so bad and sump diving so dangerous, it's hard to see the rescue as anything other than miraculous. (How do we square terms like "miracle" and ideas like "prayer" with also giving the credit and praise to the human skills & professionalism which made the rescue work? Can you even use a word like "miracle" without inherently implying the work of a higher power, and devaluing what the aid team did...?)

( Full article cross-posted for posterity under the cut )

(no subject)

My religious system has a lamentable lack of actual gods. This is in part by design - im mote comfortable with both the abstract, faceless, immensity sort of Power, and the local fairy who happens to live nearby and who might be up for a chit chat and exchange of favours. All the same, it leaves me with an absence of anything to actually *worship*. And again, this is surely in part by design? As that makes me more uncomfortable than, say, a Witchfather who comes to teach or a water fey who might be summoned and talked with. And yet. There's a hollow in my practice where a god ought to be. It would be nice to have a thing to serve and worship and, well, regard as a higher power. Maybe it's not in my nature? Or maybe I ought to challenge my discomfort? It's hard to say. I do envy people with prayers and rhe like, but whenever ive tried writing them they've felt very silly.

Does Not Play Well With Others

I feel like I'm in such a weird position wrt joining a spiritual group right now. Most I can find with a public place are targeted at novices, and have a whole bit about going through a training program to explain what Wicca is.

1.
The process of learning Wicca 101 is used as a prerequisite for joining a group. Well, I already know my 101. I don't expect automatic entry into a group just for that. I guess my point is, none of these groups seem to have an *alternative* entry pathway. Learning how to pronounce athame is and what the East symbolises is as much a period of time & space to demonstrate commitment and shared values.

Clearly, joining any group requires a grounding in that group's *specific* traditions and working practices. At the same time, these things all have forms with questions like "why are you interested in becoming a Wiccan?" and there's no way to answer that as someone with 20 years of magical practice behind them, without sounding like an asshole. You know?

I'd like to see entryway structures which are more clearly focused on "we need to get to know you & gradually share some of our specific working practices" rather than "this month we discuss ritual tools". I guess, maybe a more individuated process than I've been seeing. I've found a lot of "pass our 6 month training course and then we'll introduce you to a local coven in our network (tough luck if they turn out to be assholes)", and not a lot of "we're interested in new seekers, let's have some conversations". I feel like groups don't really know what to do to warm up to people, if it's not explaining what Lammas is.

2.
Maybe the problem here is my ego & my inherent discomfort with groups.

3.
But also, interviews and initiatory processes are a two way street. It's about two people meeting and seeing what each can do for the other. So the fact I see this stuff and prickle with discomfort, perhaps that is also a useful feeling to acknowledge. I'm not going to do well in a group which expects me to complete a lengthy correspondence course before meeting the people I am to work with.

I guess also because I want to practice - I'm done reading and writing and thinking, or at least, do enough of all three not to want to be required to do more. I want to be doing more magic and ritual, and while no one should open the door to that just because *I'm* in the mood for it, at the same time...I'm interested in things that meet my needs. Joining a working group means meeting a bunch of people who have similar needs, or where we can compromise on both sides to meet each others' needs. Let's just say my need is not, and will never be, encouragement to do more book-learning and written work.

4.
I wouldn't be looking for a group if I didn't think I had things to learn; it's not exactly that I feel "better than" the covens I've found, although I do try and be aware of my ego & stuff like that which gets in the way of me playing nicely with others.

It's that periods of training are impersonal and therefore not structured around my weaknesses and areas for development. I'm not ready to participate in rituals or lead ritual, I have a lot to learn - but the available entry-to-coven programs in my area are exclusively for new Pagans, online, and generic.

5.
And I'm thinking about the Online Dating analogy of Paganism - in which "joining a coven" is analogous to "getting married". Clearly, there are steps between meeting someone online and committing to marriage - feeling one another out, sharing values, spending time together, having your first argument.

I think this is where the covens I'm seeing fall down, because if someone sends you a couple of questions to answer before a first date - well OK then. But if they send you a 20 question form, then another, and then something to study and write answers on once a month for a year before a first meet up, then...I get that it's a commitment challenge, but I guess what I'm saying is I ALSO want to interview the people who are initiating ME. I don't like how unidirectional and hierarchical the process seems. I want the people who run the coven to be demonstrating *their* commitment to ME.

For example, I finally found a tradition that I was excited about, answered their first 10 questions, and got a perfunctory "well done! Here's another 30 questions and administration fee before we send you your member pack" and I'm like - hold on, buddy. You can ask me for my legal name and political views and address and some money and "how I handle feelings of guilt" and all, but commitment goes both ways. I'm not here to make you feel good. I'm not here to beg, or give you an arbitrary sense of power and grandeur at my own expense. I'm looking - fundamentally - for friends.

And I feel the process should be a bit more like making friends, which is to say, no you can't have my address or a detailed questionnaire about my personal habits before our first date. And as it happens, I have a couple of questions for you. I'm turned off by anyone who thinks dating them is such a privilege I should have to run a yearlong obstacle course for a chance to be considered" - rather than a casual "let's see if we can work together" sort of a chit chat.

Writing an enquiry email to a coven or organisation is just that - an enquiry email. It means I'm shopping, but not yet ready to buy. Just like I'd be uncomfortable if I sent someone a flirt on OKCupid, and got back a full document describing the engagement rings they'd consider and asking me what I'd like to name our child.

In fact, it's EXACTLY like the Bachelor. Do you ever watch that? We really do need better heterosexual representation...in the Bachelor, a large group of women are put together in a house and compete in a series of challenges and skill tests to "win" marriage with an eligible single man who they've not actually met but nevertheless talk endlessly about their "relationship" with. No dating on earth is like the Bachelor, or at least, it shouldn't be. And then we get to coven hunting and it's - coven entry is like the Bachelor, something there to be won, something initiates need to commit to wholeheartedly from the outset and then compete for as part of a generic team process which the Bachelor can end at any time.

Rather than - coffee. Cake and coffee. What I'm looking for in a coven initiation process is exactly what I look for in a date - a fairly clear outline of their expectations and personality, followed by a cake date and conversation, and then if that goes well, maybe more...

It's 2018 - you don't need to be initiated or taught witchcraft by anybody, so the covening process is ultimately about people and relationships between people. I don't think there's anything anyone knows important enough that it can't be figured out and faked through other means. I'm not looking for an organisation to train me and make me into an initiated witch, and then find me an affiliated coven - I've got books for that. I'm looking for people who want to work with me, and who I want to work with. I'm looking for friends. I'm looking for a relationship.

6.
Also, darn. It's hard to tell how much of the problem is me. A fair amount, I'd guess. I just...don't...have the personal characteristics which make undergoing a year-long email correspondence course before being sent an introduction to local witches an easy sell. I want to start work, I want to circle with people soon, I want to be meeting the people I'm going to circle with now and developing a commitment to them just as they develop one to me - I don't think that's too off base. Is it? Is this unreasonable?

I just don't play well with others. And damned if I'm going to make a stranger feel special, and let them drip-feed me information and dangle the promise of hidden secrets and dance to their pipe on the promise of something which might never happen.

(no subject)

I think fundamentally, my complaint is: I have a lot of books which are "Step By Step Learn About Magic Month By Month". When I'm looking for a group, I'm looking for something I can't get from a book.

So much of what I've found so far is essentially a stranger offering to email me their book one chapter at a time and, if I do all that correctly, I get to meet them and they'll consider it.

I'm clearly not ready to step into someone's circle as an equal member. There has to be a building of trust and understanding. But the process has to be two-way. And as I said, it has to offer something more than I can get on my own with a course study book.